Hello cf. Im a 2 times ICPC WF deepthroat sucker so there is nothing much left to do in cp and i was just curious what hidden opportunities do i have as an average bottom div1 creep/bot. Linkedin turned out to be a useless app where millenials post shitty corporative memes and all other people just complain about their coworkers. I do have a full time job by now but id rather die than code OOP for the rest of my life and im young enough to make a risky move so i consider getting a higher degree cus it seems to be the only way i can continue getting knowledge but i want to get a decent stipend(to eat delicious food and buy cheap clothes at least since im young dumb and broke is i said) Ill be grateful for any information. Getting in good uni is pretty much impossible today. They take ppl who can talk like they smart but struggle with leetcode medium problems at the same time
Ill answer some questions before u ask
Studying CS in uni is useles blah blah blah: i dont want a cs degree but rather study a math major. I swear id rather be a toilet cleaner than a software engineer
Yes, i want to hear another joke about my handle
Yes, im another average 2200 creep that thinks hes a mathematician)))
I believe that ther are a lot of people with similar experience. Retired coders please feel free to share ur own thoughts in the comments. LGMs ignore this
downvote if u want i dont care i probably will never visit this website again
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buy yourself a yacht and go fishing
how to be a mathematician like you
Have a girlfriend
create one instead
Smart
recall this comment when I become a billionaire in 10 years due to my AI girlfriend company
bro you are so good to retire
Take steroids and gamble
Do u consider becoming a competitive programming coach to reproduce more 2200 creeps?
Hear me out its not that i want to be extra rich ass ninja but dont want to be poor either so, no i dont Id also want to be taught rather than teach because im an average adhd zoomer
get a job at google , case solved (don't take my comment seriously)
Is SWE that bad ? I never considered this but now that I thinked about it , I might need to change my future plans too.
I guess its just me being immature and picky yapper but still i can and i will quit i just need to figure out how and where to go
The nickname explains it all.😂
Do not call yourself a Div1 creep or bot. You have already demonstrated your determination. I believe that if you direct your efforts into another sphere, it will definitely lead to satisfaction. I wish you good luck in finding a job that you truly enjoy.
This will be an absolutely useless comment, more an expression of my own feelings and opinions, and don't take it as advice or the real state of affairs. Unlike you, I'm just a "deepthroat sucker" who used to be a mathematician and doesn't understand what to do now, and is equally disappointed in university policies: "They take people who can talk like they're smart," and no one really cares about what's actually there; what's important is how the hell you present it. And I'm just a guy who really wants to do research and likes meeting people who, even though they can't talk for sh*t, are doing interesting things and aren't chasing a successful career in companies. Actually, this comment is more to try to get a response from the not "deepthroat sucker" Um_nik. I was offered to engage in competitive programming by telling his story, and as I was told, he also experienced similar thought problems.
I don't know what kind of response you want from me. If you have some concrete questions — ask them.
Would you like to be a Codeforces coordinator?
Probably too weak as a programmer to be one
It seems like you're somehow being bored with this crazy world and shits all around. As a beginner, I always prefer my way instead of what happening around. I'm happy with what I'm. That's it. There are many ones who aren't like many of us doing creative jobs just for fun or soul-entertainment. Let them do whatever and don't be panicked at their way of thoughts or anything. We are special. Just try to be someone like Tourist.
become an open-source enjoyer (aka sigma)
At least at my school, we have a theoretical CS (TCS) major within the CS Master's program. It is a fairly difficult major with lots of math. My classmates from the math department also struggle. So perhaps you could consider going for TCS if you want to continue your higher education.
What is ur school name bro
ETH Zurich
There is absolutely no chance i can get in there
Once you apply, the decision is no longer in your hands; the admission committee will decide for you. :)
Lowkey the best motivational advise I've heard about aplying to a masters degree lol
Congrats on becoming cm again but its still impossible to get in zurich
I think you severely underestimate your chances. Just read the page https://ethz.ch/en/studies/master/application.html and ask someone to help you to craft your application so it satisfies the requirements. It seems doable to show that your university falls under the condition of "nationally top ranked universities". You can also mention being 2 times ICPC world finalist as an achievement.
I am pretty sure it's much much simpler than you think (I got in btw so there is personal experience)
Have you considered taking up goose farming?
holy shit your profile looks like you've done some sorcery or smthn
well done pulling off a humble/funny tone. I was in a similar boat, and found out that Quant Finance scratched the bug of having to solve very hard problems on a daily basis. Its hard to get into, but worth the effort if you seek constant mental stimulation. Depending on your preferences, you can choose a more dev focussed role where you optimize numerical/linear algebra/ML algorithms implementation specific to your use case (which is pretty challenging) or a more research focussed role which bends towards data analysis and scripting. I personally prefer the former one.
Thanks for appreciating my tone i put big work in it)
I genuinely think that occupation you just mentioned is what i want so thanks for sharing this too. Any additional info will be helpful. Where to study or where to start the journey, where to aim at the start, etc.
If you have some tips we could text via telegram. But if u refuse it will be totally okay since you already helped a lot and i wont be offended since im a grown ass man and shit
lmfao why does the way you talk seem so funny to me xDDDDD
This is the "fuck it we ball" energy that I need in my life.
Your personality matches with your pfp. I like it
No.
I think being a software engineer at a relatively high-paying company for a few years + quitting to do math is a good option, you only have to get tortured for a small while before finding something more interesting and can still afford to eat tasty foods.
Another option is CP coaching which I tried for a bit (and posted an advertisement blog lol), and I feel like that can be lucrative (at least there's a lot of tryhard parents in the US who are willing to pay a lot). But I stopped doing that for the most part since I didn't charge that much and felt like charging a lot is either scamming or feeding off some kind of zero-sum game.
I am another 2200 bot who hates corporate software engineering :p
if i became a grandmaster will i work at google?
Bro has the same mentality as me.
Be like this average programmer
How about Quant Companies? (Examples: Graviton, TowerResearch) Much less OOP BS much more of the thing you like while you make sweet bucks
Researchin opportunities in this occupation right now thanks
bro you are shit (it is antonym);
How was your handle not taken for so long?
When i submitted new nickname i was so sure its already taken so i didnt take it serious then i realized its permanent for a year lol
Not exactly what you are asking, but if you want to study (pure) math for yourself, check the Independent University of Moscow. No, you don't need to be in Moscow to take the courses, often this can be done online. IUM curriculum is quite a bit tougher than that of traditional universities, but in principle, no special prerequisites are required to start.
cry
As a retired 2x ICPC world finalist "average not-even-2200-currently creep" I feel that I have to share my story to current moment.
Our trip to ICPC WF Dhaka in fall 2022 felt miraculous for a number of reasons: constant struggle to find a strong third team member (we ended up participating as a team of 2), not very promising results of a selection contest (place 21 at NERC 2020), unstable world-wide pandemic and political situation, unstable situation in own life. I realisticly couldn't wish more from ICPC career: 2x finals, 5x participations, honored coach title for our main coach, many years of travelling across whole country and abroad. That was the last and the brightest spark in CP career:
open onsite veteran competitions are definitely not my league
problemsetting is cool, but it is incredibly hard to make it your main way of living, I do not have a level for that
teaching and coaching are cool, but I do not want to make it my main way of living. That contradicts my own view that a great teacher must be a good professional in his area first and only a good teacher second. And I have way more to discover in areas of CS & Math
After that I was actively interviewing with different companies. I've spent a few month working in small local gamedev company, filled with alumni of my university and many people I know personally it was great. I had to quit it to have an intership in international hedge fund, my project here was overwhelming for me and I failed, yet that was very educative for me. Unsure whether I want to continue with financial or gamedev area, I decided to take a rest, continue coaching, teaching algorithms and setting contests at my university and explore other options.
I was uncertain what do I even want from my job and what do I even want from my life. I'm ready to think about my work day&night and I definitely wouldn't be able to do it without passion. I definitely want to dive deep into the problems, I definitely want to have a research element in my work, to face open questions willing for state-of-the-art solutions. Throughout my education/work/hobbies I've built up wide range of skills and it felt like any opportunity I've seen so far only involved a part of that knowledge & skills. I definitely want to find application of as many things I know as possible.
Being a research enjoyer (I've learned matroids to make this tutorial for CF https://codeforces.me/blog/entry/69287 and made a statistical research on playing a game https://codeforces.me/blog/entry/107101 ) and feeling young enough for "risky moves" I turned my sight to academic options. I've read about multiple PhD programs (both international and in Russia), messaged multiple people on CF about them. Turned out I've missed deadlines for 2024 international programs.
I've mostly looked for Math/CS/ML related programs, but what I ended up with came to me from a very unexpected direction. I was aware about interdisciplinary research being very cool and very successful in modern science, but I wasn't sure how should I look for such opportunities.
So when my close friend asked for a help with a program for his research I was eager to help. And later what started in early 2023 as a web collector of meteorological simulation data now became a fully-functional custom GIS and it involved everything I know and way beyond: web programming, desktop programming, graphics programming, algorithms & data structures, math, geophysics, meteorology, data analysis & data visualization. We started discussing general UI & user workflow and ended at mathematicly proving our current approach (and probably not only ours) being incorrect (it appeared to be non-invariant to grid resolution). I realized that this project is among one of the most interesting in my life, that I can try doing my own projects in this area and at September 2024 I applied to Earth Sciences > Oceanology PhD program at Institute of Oceanology, Russian Academy of Sciences. (My friend is also a PhD student on this program in IO RAS.)
Today my friend is on the drifting expedition "North Pole — 42" on the new Ice-resistant Self-propelled Platform "North Pole" as a lead of the hydrochemical lab. And I've passed my entry exams and became a PhD student with "Machine Learning in Earth Sciences" research profile. The great quest to discover and merge geophysics, math, machine learning, computer science and software development in my mind had just started. It already feels hard, I'm literally drowning in amounts of information, yet I was aware of what I'm doing (jumping into intersection of 2 unknows areas for me) and this is exactly what I wanted to get. I can only compare my feelings to the moment I first discovered competitive programming back in 2015 and got lost in it for almost a decade now.
It is hard to predict what will happen in future, but I'm sure I will have an interesting story to share after a few years from now.
I can only give some additional advice based on my own experience:
Concerning your interest in math you should definitely take a look into different educational programs (even you will decide to not enter them). I do not know what level of education you have, but even if you only have bachelors degree you can apply to both international Masters and PhD programs alike. PhDs are usually more individualized programs in which most of the things depend on you and your research mentor. It is definitely good to talk to different possible reseach mentors and decide whether this is even interesting for you both and what are the topics you can work on. Interdisciplinary research can go wild, many people involved in such respond that they've never imagined their current work before they tried. But unfortunately I cannot suggest a comprehensive way to search for these opportunities, I can only recommend talking to older people you know in your university or the people involved into research you might know.
Keep track of codeforces blogs and round sponsor sections. Some of the opportunities I've found and used were presented there. Having a decent rating of 2200 you are exactly the target audience they're looking for. I know many people with way worse rating turned out successful in getting an offer.
Being in the middle of a hiring process in IT industry might feel like an unfair clown-show, you can get ignored and rejected in very absurd ways, and it will definitely hurt for the first few times. But in reality this is a repeated version of the "wedding problem" (or "secretary problem"): rejecting is cheap, but miss-hiring or accepting bad offer is not, this is why optimal strategy for both sides is close to "always reject on any uncertainties". You can try unlimited number of times (even into the same company), but you have to win just once.
LinkedIn is very helpful in attracting HR attention to you, having some work experience and such achievements in CP (CF rating 2200+, 2x ICPC WF) is good enough combo to get first interview in many companies.
I know for myself that money alone will not make me happy, I will definitely feel trapped in golden cage if forced to live in an unknown country and forced to work hard on the things I do not see interest in. This is why I've chosen not to stick with financial area. And this is also a reason some of my friends left financial area. Right now I have "just enough" money to follow my new passion and I'm ready to sacrifice my comfort, but this might not be the option for you.
Also I'm not really retiring from CP, I still enjoy it, but participating in it will no longer be my main focus. I'm glad that I have opportunity to continue teaching/coaching/problemsetting now and plan to do so (if only I will have enough time).
can you please share your experience in financial area. What aspects of knowledge do they actually use and do you still consider it to be your possible future and why?
as of right now it seems to be the most serious out of all options i consider but i dont want to spend years studying a major that i suddenly can find not mine
My experience in financial area is pretty limited. Almost all financial companies have IT-department or infrastructural department. By that I mean software engineers, DevOps, R&D, etc. I was always looking only into that part of the financial area.
Working in infra you aren't really "majoring" in finance. Of course you will have to understand the processes you are handling and working with, but realisticly that will not exceed 5%-10% of your usual work.
Many companies have vanilla software engineering positions like "we need yet another web/mobile app for our clients". This is not very interesting for me. I'm attracted by high load / high frequency systems and by research & development.
Working with high load / high frequency systems is like doing a usual software engineering with one extra dimension of complexity. Typical exchange generates hundreds of gigabytes of data daily. On these scales even basic operations like storing, accessing, sending are not that basic anymore. The need for efficiency is amplified to the level that it changes everything related. As a result complicated and large systems are built to fulfill these needs. Also often in such systems there is no "good enough" solution and any extra performance will be useful. Exploring and working on such systems is very appealing for me.
R&D is working on projects that do not have a completed design, do not have a proof to be efficient or even do not have a proof to be working at all. Everything experimental and state-of-the-art effectively starts as some R&D project. My internship project was like that. I cannot share details due to NDA, but it is still interesting for me whether someone managed to achieve goals of that project or not. I enjoy research and enjoy working on something that has unknown result beforehand.
From the knowledge perspective high frequency / high load dev will obviously put heavier requirement on how good you can analyze and measure performance of your code. This includes algorithms & data structures, profiling, memory layouts, caches, etc. CP experience will definitely come in handy. R&D however can include and combine almost anything depending on a project.
Depending on the company/project here you can expect to work with
latest C++/Rust
latest libraries
large and modern hardware & software infrastructure
that can be appealing on it's own.
Despite not being passionate about financial area by itself, I still consider working in it as my potential future. Especially if I will find some interesting R&D projects that will require application of my knowledge.
go into quant
rewind time and suck WF's deepthroat again