Note: you can downvote, but please read the whole thing before doing so
First of all, I do not support the invasion. However I'm going to explain why I believe both the US and Ukraine have major faults in the Russian invasion.
Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? In short, the Soviet Union wanted to place nuclear warheads in Cuba, but the US would not allow it, and threatened to use nuclear weapons if Soviet ships sent nuclear warheads into Cuba.
Now, after both the Warsaw Pact and the USSR dissolved, Russia asked NATO to say that they would never expand Eastward. NATO did not agree but they did say they would discuss it.
NATO has expanded eastward 3 times. Russia was very angry but did not do anything. The reason was that all of them are fairly far away from Moscow. However, Ukraine is the closest and is right in front of Moscow's front door. Allowing other neighboring countries to join NATO is not great but at least tolerable.
However, Russia allowing Ukraine to join NATO would be like the US letting the USSR put nuclear warheads in Cuba. It is impossible.
But after current Ukrainian president Zelensky assumed office in 2019, he, being the clown he is, as an actor and comedian, decided to sign a constitutional amendment committing the country to becoming a member of NATO.
Russia could tolerate pretty much any country except Ukraine from joining. Not only is it huge, it's also the closest country to Moscow (excluding Belarus which is close allies with Russia).
Russia did not decide to invade Ukraine this month. They probably had plans about it 3 years ago, and just thought now was the best time to do so to stop Ukraine from ever joining NATO.
And Biden, being the Sleepy Joe he is, didn't even say anything productive. Instead, it seemed like he was inviting Russia to attack.
First of all he said things like 'we will defend every inch of NATO territory'. That's complete nonsense. What purpose does that statement serve? Ukraine isn't part of NATO, so saying that is really just saying the US won't be doing much to help.
And he didn't help by continually saying 'Russia will definitely invade Ukraine. Probability is very high' shit. Well, Mr. President, if you had done anything useful, Russia would definitely not invade Ukraine.
And I don't want to hear about anything related to morals, about war being wrong. The US is always sticking its nose into other people's business, whether it's bombing Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia.
The US really be telling Russia not to invade Ukraine, and then goes and airstrikes Somalia today.
I really don't understand the hypocrisy.
Do Ukrainian lives matter more than Somalians?
I think someone just wants the false peace.
This is a known Straw Man Fallacy aligned with Russian and Chinese propaganda. No government is free from sin. Debating the correctness of the events that you mention will just fall into the trap, and it doesn't help with the current situation in Ukraine.
So doing the fucking praying will help with the situation?No wonder Hong Kong can never get independence from China,because Hong Kong citizens are stupid and naive fools like you.
Hong Kong have belonged to China since 1997.
ok I agree because I do not care but at least ask those people who are living there in Hong Kong and Taiwan . I mean to saythat I have seen here lot of chinese people calling them there part but they always oppose I think.
What I know is that Hong Kong and Taiwan are completely different.
Probably I think chinese regard the "land" much more important.I remember I have read a book about international society,and it emphasize the relationship in China was built mainly by family relationship and region.So they will more concern about the land especially the territory,I guess.
sry to my poor English.I'm glad if you can point out my wrong understanding and how can I express it correctly.
Thanks! Your profile and replies simply prove my point that it's align with the Chinese propaganda.
I have read the whole thing and you are so wrong in so many places.
False. The Soviet Union did place missiles in Cuba. And the US still decided to not invade Cuba. Please read the article you have linked.
Except for Finland and Sweden too, see your spokeswoman: https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1497217148267253760.
Did Russia promise to not expand westward in exchange? Oh, and by the way, the world asked Russia to not kill civilians in Ukraine too.
He has more balls than millions of Russian people living under the Putin regime.
Nonsense? The fact that NATO wants to defend its territory? This is probably out-of-context (no source was given) and was not related to Ukraine. Ukraine is not a part of NATO.
Anything useful? Like what? Being quiet like they were 8 years ago when Russia started the war with Ukraine?
Btw, you should probably also know that Russia has signed Budapest Memorandum in 1994:
The US has its problems, but at least they don't attack schools and orphanages.
We all live in our bubbles, but Russian people need to understand that this conflict is pointless and they should fix their country first. Your country is rotten. Your government kills innocent people, both in Ukraine and in Russia. Fuck you and all other Russian bots that upvote this post.
Your reply makes no sense. There is no doubt the Ukrainian govt themselves are the an important cause of this war. Sure, we should condemn the ruthless Russian attacks, but you should put a limit on babbling all on how its totally not your governments faults and that Russia is solely to be blamed.
What did they do exactly then?
Trying to join NATO, which would make NATO forces just stand in front of Russia, like putting a knife on one's neck.
I'm struggling to understand how wanting to join NATO (which wasn't even going to happen any time soon) justifies an invasion
of course an invasion isn't the best way to solve the problem, and I didn't say that either. I was just explain the fact that Ukraine want to join NATO and how that endangered Russia's national security.
As an independent country, Ukraine has the absolute right to do whatever it wants. How the heck does it justify the invasion?
Wrong, Ukraine has no rights to kill innocent russian people.
Lol u give civs a lot of guns and then cry why we kill them. You alreay lost the "war", but we dont
want to kill a lot of inocent people, so we dont rush cities. But we can easily blow them from air, like the USA did many times. Lay down your guns or u will be destroyed.
are you sane?
Yup. We were too soft with you, we have to multiply on zero every civilian that is argueing with us, like the USA.
sure
I don't support the war but giving guns to civilians is the stupidest thing zelensky could've done. Not only will that force the far-superior russian troops to needlessly kill civilians(who are handling guns for the first time in their lives),it also increases the possibility of saboteurs (there are already many) who might supply those guns to the russians instead/or use it themselves to kill unsuspecting Ukrainian soldiers. Many such incidents have already taken place. Your text to link here...like this one where saboteurs started killing civilians and this one Your text to link here...,where civilians suspected their own to be russians and killed them. Incredibly sad to see.
In fact it is a war crime, but this clown-president doesnt care, he want all his people die for no reason.
What's more appalling is the blatant US-tailormade propaganda like the "Ghost of Kiev" , Snake Island martyrs(none of whom actually died btw (which is a great thing) Your text to link here... and the clown using his old photos Your text to link here... for needless sensationalism,all of which will just lead to citizens and soldiers,who were earlier going to surrender/flee to start fighting and die,just so he can keep his media image intact. Would you rather your soldiers/citizens peacefully surrender ( like snake island soldiers,who are being treated very respectfully) or just go and sacrifice themselves for momentous glory and martyrhood? Surrender is no sin and lives are of the utmost value.
Both sides use propaganda, Ukrain says about 3.000 dead Russians(lol) and all about you said upper. Some mad people even believe that they recaptured Snake Island. Ours says about 0 dead Russian(not true at all, about 100) are dead. 13 Kiev's people died in the island, but 83 surrendered. It's very funny, because all ukrainians belivie in their "democracy" country, but in fact they are the same as Russia, even worse. Clown-president wants their civs to die in a war against much stronger Russia forces.
Except that it's not? Mind pointing out how arming civilians violates article 8 of the Statue of the ICC?
Stop pulling words like "war crimes" out of your ass without knowing what it means
Honest thanks for this reply, it was really quite sickening seeing so many upvotes on this shit of a post.
There are many Chinese kids trying to spread the view they have learned from China media.
By the way, hate speech and racism are widely accepted on Chinese media.
Sadly it's true, a lot of people here said that "the United States bombarded Iraq, Russia can invade Ukraine too."
I want to tell these people that you may hate those western countries , but you can't use one tragedy to justify another tragedy. War is cruel and innocent people are dying , no one deserves to be killed. Those soldiers in the war are mostly regular citizens , they also have their families and friends.
Thanks for being reasonable
There are many Western kids trying to spread the view they have learned from Western media.
By the way, anti-China speech and hypocritical 'human rights' are widely accepted on Western media.
The western media are allowed more political freedom, enabling us to make more informed judgements. I unfortunately cannot say the same for the Chinese media from what I've seen in the past few days. The comments under these news coverages are even more outrageous, rampant with 小粉红 saying stuff like “老美是万恶之源" (america is the source of all evil). Of course there are also more rational people, but 小粉红 largely outnumbers them.
小粉红 is an internet slang describing the Chinese patroits.
Lies. Police crack down on protests in Russia — "how can they do such things!awful!". Police crack down on protests in Canada, UK etc — "we dont know any protests. we dont see. we dont hear".
"The US has its problems but at least they don't attack schools and orphanages". My guy, you have no idea what you're talking about. They're both as horrible as each-other but people can't care less for anyone who lives in the middle east.
Yes sorry, I meant nuclear warheads. I changed it
Maybe Russia want them to get any ideas. But more importantly, why is it MY spokeswoman? I'm a Chinese-American. I also said I don't support the invasion. I'm saying my opinions, and then you just assume I'm Russian?
Why? For staying behind while Ukraine is getting attacked? When bravery is used at the wrong time, it is called stupidity.
It was related to Ukraine. Biden was talking about the Russians about to invade, and said the US would 'defend every inch of NATO territory' but won't send troops to Ukraine. So what's the point? Biden is just saying the US won't help Ukraine except more sanctions, which Russia doesn't care about.
I'm confused why you said this. Aren't you also saying that the US isn't doing anything useful?
Yes, Russia should respect independence and sovereignty of Ukraine. I know that. Just like the US should respect independence and sovereignty of many other places.
Also, what if Mexico allowed Russia to have a military base there. Or sign a treaty to become allies. It's right on the US's front door, even if the US does respect the independence and sovereignty of Mexico, do you really think the US wouldn't do anything?
I already said, I don't support the invasion.
Bro can you guys ACTUALLY FUCKING STOP. I'm Chinese-American. And I know that BOTH THE USA AND CHINA HAVE THINGS TO FIX. CLEARLY YOU LIVE IN YOUR OWN BUBBLE LIKE YOU SAY.
SO FUCK YOU AND YOUR RACIST FRIENDS.
So "strong" argumentation about "clown", but that constitutional amendment was actually signed by previous president Poroshenko. Try better next time! :)
kostka Big thanks for your position!
I believe the USA should start doing something useful to defend peace instead of picking a fight between two other countries and making lots of money with war.
I believe the USA should start doing something useful to defend peaceUnfortunately that only happens in movies.
In real life , Us sells guns , lots of them actually.
Obviously, western countries led by the USA and Russia have been rivals for a long time. Ukraine, as a relatively small country bordering Russia, should maintain the principle of neutrality. Culturally and historically, Ukraine is closer to Russia, but economically, it is very necessary to maintain good trade with western countries. If Zelenski really cares about his country and the Ukrainian people, he should not be foolish to decide to join NATO(and be abandoned). The main fuse of this war is the huge mistake in Ukraine's political decision-making and the provocation of western countries.
Of course, my above views are based on how the Ukrainian problem should be solved, not that Ukraine can not be condemned or punished no matter what she does.
I disagree. Baltic states, which are already in NATO (since 2004), have a common border with Russia and have almost the same distance to Moscow as Ukraine has (530 km vs. 600 km). AND they are only 160 km from Sankt-Petersburg, which is so important as Moscow. Ukraine's NATO ambitions were more wishful thinking then a real thing, there were no concrete plans for next decades to include Ukraine in NATO.
Somebody may just not used to wars by countries except US
The invasion actually proves that Ukraine should have tried even harder to join NATO...
If your neighbor wants you to be his friend and no one else's at the threat of force, that doesn't make for a fair friendship, does it?
Everything you have mentioned is true due to fact that it is not the first time I heard them. I want things to settle down through talks and I care less about the honor of Ukrainian President ATM as he is the one who dragged himself to this along with USA. May peace be upon Ukrainians. They don't deserve it. They don't deserve to be handled with a riffle which they don't know how to use which does not even have proper scope. They won't be able to fight with Russians who can take them away from the distance they can't even imagine. Also, not to forget huge disparity in skills. Congrats to the Ukrainian President and NATO Geniuses for push the Ukrainians into the pit.
I don't know about the direct outcome of this one-sided war. But there are obvious direct consequences:
NATO will loose its hype. It will be loose its reputation to be the formidable group especially for the third world countries owing to the fact that they were not able to give proper assistance to Ukraine — the soon to be NATO and just bluffed away with sanctions against Russia. Now, the world will know how helpless NATO is.
What follow from (1.) is that countries like Russia and China will gain unparallel amount of confidence owing to the fact that NATO turns into a kitty party meet of diplomats when it comes to dealing with Nuclear Power.
From the second world war all the conflicts between two coutries, there was always Russia or USA involved somehow directly or indireclty you could see some conflicts like Whole Cold war, Vietnam war, Afganistan, Taliban's(If you don't know, in the starting they are totaly supported and trained by the US government and Osama-bin-laden was the result), India-Pakistan conflict (because before 9/11 USA trained and supported Afganistan for stay close to Russia and when they get stronger they started their cowardness in India) and some other are going on and many more will come (But of course I/We don't want that).
Why the hell are you debating who is responsible for war on a competitive programming site?
You are not making the world a favor.
I know this is not the best place for such discussions, but fuck it, a lot of people visit this website and some things have to be discussed.
Why copy-paste kostka's words?
There is no "it was kind of his fault for going there" when a man gets mugged walking home in a dark alley.
There is no "part of it was her fault for wearing that dress" when a woman gets raped.
And there is most definitely not "Why are we debating who is responsible" when it comes down to Putin invading Ukraine. Because the answer is obvious: it's Putin and Putin alone.
Putin's bots and the CCP bots all claim to be "against the war" or "not supporting the invasion" or some other ambiguously neutral position. But their true colors are obvious when you ask them to condemn Putin, and Putin alone, for this disgusting invasion: they won't do it! Try it yourself.
Ask yourself, if a gang beats up on an old lady and you see person X say "I am against this senseless violence" but they won't denounce the gang... what does it say about what X truly feels?
Chinese media call it just military action, so they can claim "against the war" or "not supporting the invasion".
Don't talk about it. Everyone can't change their mind. Everyone thinks that people with different opinions are brainwashed. There are always people who selectively ignore some facts that are unfavorable to their opinions. Occupying the home page in CF makes everyone's blood pressure soar. Go to other places where only people with the same opinions can communicate.
You talk about the NATO expansion as a country's expansion, meanwhile it is a choice of independent nations. Defending the NATO territory was said to the countries in the east of Europe which belong to NATO, like the Baltic States and Poland. In future, I'd suggest refraining from talking about the things you don't understand. The EU and NATO is the future of people of Ukraine because they've already chosen it. One terrorist, however powerful, can't prevent that from happening in a long run. I hope that the military equipment Ukraine gets from many countries in the world will be put to a good use. Glory to Ukraine!
The EU and NATO is the future of people of Ukraine because they've already chosen it.
This is the tragedy of "classic" Western-style democracy in small countries.Ukrianians choose the EU and NATO instead of neutral,and they naively thought it was the right choice.In fact,that choice made by themselves destroyed their country.
Of course you can say Ukraine is innocent,Putin is 100% to be blame.But do remember,as a small country surrounded by strong neighbors,one wrong choice can turn you into ashes.You people choose that way,so you deserve it.
Wrong choice with such consequences as you describe could hardly be called a choice at all. One strong country near my country is Ukraine which is fighting this big war. Putin is just a terrorist, as I said. And you are a coward as you post from a fake account.
When Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan made their decisions, the USA attacked them. If small country does smth wrong, it will be punished by a big one. There is no Ukrain, we will capture it and in fact it will be Russia. Hello Europe, we have some nuclear rockets to place in new Russia for ya ;)
So you are saying that if the US does something bad then russia can do it too?
He's saying its ironic for western countries to act so heroic when the truth is all these countries (USA, Russia, UK, France ... ) are terrible. At least that's what I think he meant. in the end, its the people in countries like Ukraine and the Middle East who suffer, never the people who start these wars.
I totally agree with what you say, but your last sentence: "Do Ukrainian lives matter more than Somalians just because Ukrainians are white and everyone from the Middle East is considered a terrorist?"
You write a long text explaining that the war is mainly a problem between Russia and the USA, but you end up telling us about a skin color.
Why always bring everything back to this? Are there only white people in Ukraine?
Somalia is far from home so most people don't care what's going on there. It's not a matter of skin color. A war in Somalia has very little chance of being able to have a lasting influence on the lives of Westerners, the same cannot be said of a war in Ukraine. (I am the first to denounce the hypocrisy of NATO)
Are you going to say that people who don't support Russia are Islamophobic because there are a lot of Muslims in Russia?
Oh I rethought about it and deleted that part.
But then again it seems like you are saying Ukrainians lives matter more just because they affect us more.
It's not that it counts more, but it affects us more.
Losing someone in your family or a friend does not affect you more than a stranger? Does that make you a monster?
That doesn't mean Somali lives don't matter!!
We don't have the same ties with everyone and are closer to some, humans work like that.
Are the Somalis more affected by what is happening in Ethiopia or other countries or by what is happening in Ukraine?
I agree with you that a lot of things are glossed over when she shouldn't be, but we can't expect everything to affect us the same way either. It will never happen and I don't think it's desirable either.
We are willing to take risks for what we love, if everything hits us the same way, we won't live long or stop fighting for what we love.
I think Chinese middle schoolers are very free so they are shitting in Blog entries and upvoting crap blogs.
When did the codeforces turn into political newspaper?
They should change the websites name to Politicforces