Lance_The_Dragon_Trainer's blog

Why are alts not being banned?
By Lance_The_Dragon_Trainer, history, 4 years ago, In English

Hi, codeforces. This is not a shitpost blog, just letting you know.

Look at this blog: Blog

Here Agnimandur says that he will participate officially in contests made for contestants in a lower division. Despite openly saying it, no action has been taken against him. He solved all problems in the div 3 round officially with his alt account AgnimandurDIV3 today. Is this ethical? Is this not against the rules? For his own satisfaction, he has made the ranks of other people worse. This is not his first contest. He took part in a few div 2 contests previously.

I want to ask you guys: how is this fair? Why hasn't anything been done about it?

It's not only Agnimandur, there are other people who anonymously do this. But what makes me disappointed is the fact that nothing has been done despite him openly saying it.

A message to codeforces: please do something about this issue in general. It is extremely unfair.

A message to the people who shamelessly do this: please stop. Isn't there an option to register "out-of-competition"? It's like asking Usain Bolt to compete against women. He will undoubtedly win, but that win means nothing.

Thank you for reading, please share your views regarding this.

  • Vote: I like it
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  • Vote: I do not like it

Comments Comments (29)
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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +69 Vote: I do not like it

stop doing these two for a happier life: 1. being obsessed with ratings 2. expect too much from Codeforces.. :)

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +33 Vote: I do not like it

how are you going to detect alts lol

and why you should be so obsessed with losing to alt like in total it creates only rating inflation

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4 years ago, # |
← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

Why bother? I believe smurfing has a negligible effect on people's rating except the very top, it's not like one dude destroys your team 1 vs 5. Of course it's sad when a contestant gets only +100 instead of whopping +200 in div 2/3 round. But it's not that bad I even think alts serve as a natural barrier between divisions providing smooth transition.

I also have alt account but don't remember the reason for creating new account. Maybe "out-of-contest" participation wasn't exciting enough.

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    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -21 Vote: I do not like it

    why bother ? Because it is against the rules.

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      4 years ago, # ^ |
      ← Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

      I mean smurfing is in a gray area. Clearly Codeforces have no resources to address the problem. On the other hand it's not that harmful.

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        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it -78 Vote: I do not like it

        Corona was not harmful in the initial stages.

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          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

          What about Giorno Giovanna? What about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? Have you thought about that? smh

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          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

          wot

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          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +38 Vote: I do not like it

          Careful, look at his name.

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        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +32 Vote: I do not like it

        I mean smurfing is in the gray zone.

        https://codeforces.me/help#q6:

        The following rules are, of course, necessary to follow:

        • Don't create more than one account, if you have forgotten the password, use the password reminding system.

        Hard to enforce yes, but it's very explicitly disallowed. So not at all a gray area.

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          4 years ago, # ^ |
          ← Rev. 3   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          I've meant gray area not from a legal standpoint.

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    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    I won't dispute your reasoning for making an alt, since that's obviously a personal choice. However, I will challenge the notion that alts create a "natural barrier... providing smooth transition." Aren't alts by definition not natural? They're people who are already at a level above the division coming down and pretending they are still eligible for this lower division. It's like if a college student pretended to be a grade schooler to take a test in a class that graded on a curve, thus raising the bar for a good grade in the class. Now to get a good grade I not only have to be better than my classmates, but also this overqualified college student.

    (By the way, when I talk about alts, I'm only referring to high rated people who take top 100 spots on Div 2 leaderboards. A random newbie making a second account is just a drop in the ocean.)

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      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

      It looks like I was exaggerating, your div 1 participation history hints that there were no barrier at all.

      It's not about grades, it's about getting good education. You don't want to get destroyed mentally in uni where the first year course consists of algebraic geometry, Lie groups, etc.

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      4 years ago, # ^ |
      ← Rev. 5   Vote: I like it +28 Vote: I do not like it

      Well, unnatural things can create natural things as well. That is not the best argument.

      It would be better if you looked at transitions of people between div1 and div2.

      Mine
      Yours

      I think I can give you a better analogy. Its like giving a thinking to people who can beat a lot of nursery school students are better than those who beat some college students.

      Fact is, the performance gap between div1 and div2 is huge, and it would be worse without high rated people participating on alts.

      Just in case you think it's a co-incidence. I checked the number of IGMs and GMs back in june. it was 210 and 550. Currently, its 267 and 626.

      The amount of rating in div1 is increasing. iirc, The avg delta in div1 is -10. So that cannot be the reason. The rating has to come from somewhere, and the only way to put rating in div1 is when people from div2 qualify to div1 and donate rating to div1.

      That clearly means there are a significant number of people alternating gaining in div2 and losing in div1. I think there is sufficient evidence to uphold my claims.

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        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I looked at the numbers, and there's no doubt that a Div 2-1 gap exists that people struggle to cross and fall between. However:

        it would be worse without high rated people participating on alts.

        By how much? There are a lot of contributors to a gap, some of which happen regardless of when you reach Div 1.

        1. Lack of two easy problems to cushion solves and confidence. Having 0 solves feels worse than having 2 solves, even if those 2 solves are on D2A and D2B.
        2. Psyched out due to competing in a higher/next division.
        3. Competing with a more "elite" pool of participants whose performance rating are closer to Div 0, but Div 0 doesn't exist.

        And even if alts are doing wonders to close this gap, the implication seems problematic. Should we just flood Div 2 with more and more alts? In the analogy of college students and grade school, should we encourage more college students to take grade school tests? Isn't that redefining what it means to pass grade school or pass Div 2? That's why I thought it was unnatural.

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          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

          Also something else I just realized based on comments on AgnimandurDIV3's blog: the argument about the role of alts applies to every positive thing alts could possibly contribute. This is unrelated to the discussion above, I just wanted to put this here as something for people to consider.

          The correct and legal way of closing the Div 2-1 gap is to adjust problem difficulties or rating boundaries. Alts are not the police of Codeforces. It's not their job to become internet vigilantes and control the ebb and flow of rating on Codeforces.

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            4 years ago, # ^ |
            ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

            You are absolutely right. I just noted one peculiar thing about smurfs no reason to bring it to the attention.

            I can't see how it's possible to adjust problem difficulties. Unless author comes up with ten problems.

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    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +9 Vote: I do not like it

    Maybe "out-of-contest" participation wasn't exciting enough.

    Nah, it's just because gaining some ratings with your clone would boost your illusional confidence and make you feel better than getting stuck at the bottom of the "out-of-contest" standing.

    Now I just use it for shitpost but that's a whole other beast.

    I can never understand the fragility of people who need to use a clone to post something. Get a life lmao.

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      4 years ago, # ^ |
      ← Rev. 7   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Yeah, you could say that. Positive delta feels good. You totally destroyed me(9((9((

      I would argue with the fragility part. I don't lose or gain anything by posting from fakes. Sorry for badly phrasing the shitposting part, that was not the case. If you are interested: neckbotov neckborov Names are just a silly thing related to my former groupmate neckbosov. I renamed old, created new. I had some accounts, so why not participate in a few contests. There is no longer need for extra accounts now, wish there was a way to delete accounts.

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +105 Vote: I do not like it

LoOooOoOLoOOooOoLoOOoOoOOooOooOOLoOooOOoOOoOOL. ROFL. LMAO. Solve more problems, don’t get so obsessed.

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -34 Vote: I do not like it

Lol. Why bother? Go, get a job. Codeforces is useless anyways.

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +68 Vote: I do not like it

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if now people get 10th place instead of winning just because strong div2 performance often comes from alts.

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +21 Vote: I do not like it

Its much worse than that. 10 accounts in the top 20 had either 3 or 4 contest participations all within the last month. I imagine at least 30 were alts in the top 100.30 ranks behind in the top 100 is always going to create a huge difference in delta at least about 50. So you might have finally reached expert actually, but sorry your delta was consumed in the creation of 30 new alts. Remember how you were finally waiting to reach cm, or master, or gm but missed it and then reached it only 3 months later or never did.. same thing here.

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Yeah it's definitely not fair to have alts. There's options to participate unofficially for those who are in Div 2 taking Div 3 or in Div 1 taking Div 2/3. Although alts don't have a huge affect on ratings, it's somewhat frustrating to see clear alts take the first 9 places in a contest. I hope something is done soon.

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4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -9 Vote: I do not like it

UPD: The account AgnimandurDIV3 has been disabled. Codeforces finally took some action!

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