MikeMirzayanov's blog

Unknown Language Round #1
By MikeMirzayanov, 14 years ago, translation, In English
Hello!

The pilot Unknown Language Round #1 will take place soon (Monday, 21 February). It will be the usual ACM-ICPC unrated contest. The only feature - you will be able to submit problems using the only one, not very popular language. What? It's a secret!

MikeMirzayanov

UPD: The language annoncement will be available about 5 minutes before the contest.
The contest language is Tcl. Tcl (originally from "Tool Command Language", but conventionally rendered as "Tcl" rather than "TCL"; pronounced as "tickle" or "tee-see-ell") is a scripting language created by John Ousterhout (from Wikipedia article). Here is the sample program which reads and writes a single integer number:
 set line [gets stdin]<br> scan $line "%d" n<br> puts $n
You may use "Custom Test" feature (see contest user interface) to run your programs.

UPD: The contest is over: final standings link. Do you like the contest?
Announcement of Unknown Language Round 1
  • Vote: I like it
  • +81
  • Vote: I do not like it

Comments Comments (42)
| Write comment?
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
Interesting concept..can we know in advance what is the set of languages from which you will choose ? And won't there be in unfair advantage to guys who already know that language well..
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
    I think any from supported by CF system.
    Or admin will add some new :D
    → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it
      If it will be from CF system, I think it will be F# =)
      → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
      Maybe It's some language like BrainF***. So anyone can learn it during the contest.
      → Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
Mike, what exactly is the idea behind this?

I guess the aim is to broaden the language scope of the competitions, but if you announce the language during the contest itself, probably huge amount of users will need to learn the syntax just them, especially if the language is as unpopular as you say. Thus either the problems will have to be significantly easier, or only a handful of people will compete. Or at least this is what I think.

On the other hand probably if you restrict the language to one of the more popular for each of series of competitions you can make something like a language olympiad and I think the number of participants will not be that significantly reduced.

Still, I like very much the way you constantly try to introduce new competitions and make it even funnier for us! Keep up the good work!
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it
    I think the key idea is not to learn a new language. See, in Brainfuck, to compute x+y, you need O(min(x, y)) operations, not O(1) or O(log(xy)).

    My guess is, the idea of the contest is to write solutions to relatively simple problems in an unusual computational model forced by a language. Here, some (asymptotically) slow algorithm (when a standard computation model is considered) may outperform an algorithm that, in usual conditions, performs much faster.
    → Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

Its quite possible that Mike has developed a "NEW" language...

:)  may be .....

→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
I hope it's Haskell. But then a lot of participants will have problems reading or outputting anything ;)
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

A......Assembly language?!

→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
List of all programming languages
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
    سلام
    یه رقرنسی پدی افی از این نداری؟
    → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
      نه بابا
      اینها کلا مشکل دارن
      این چه زبونیه :پی
      → Reply
14 years ago, # |
← Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it
Do we will need a compiler?
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
how to programing TCL ?
refrance? or learnimg pdf?
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
اینم یه رفرنس ، عجب زبونیه ها

this is one reference for TCL language :

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Tcl_Programming
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
    سلام
    بابا خوندن از این زبون چطوره؟
    → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
      plz see mike's example(above)

      set line [gets stdin]
       scan line"%d"      n
       putsn
      → Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
    how to read a variable?
    → Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
I cannot bear it. Tcl is too difficult for me to learn!
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
    And much too nice
    It's really like Perl.
    → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it
      No, Perl is the only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption
      © Keith Bostic
      → Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it
looking forward for unknown language round #2
and i do hope that perl would be provided someday
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +11 Vote: I do not like it
IMO This contest is a surprisingly effective way to crash-learn language :D

I really had fun, I'll be waiting for upcoming sequels with great anticipation :).
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
pleas pus code problem  A,B!!
thanks
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
    می تونید همه ی کدهای بقیه رو ببینید
    روی شماره کد کلیک کنید
    → Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it
I think that it was a great idea and I managed to do the easiest problems. So Kudos ! And thanks for saying how to get the input !

For the next rounds, it might be nice to have the following :
- some links / ideas about downloading a compiler/interpreter and using an IDE
- and/or 30 minutes to have time to set up an environnement

I could find pages about TCL but where to download a version was kind of counter intuitive... and I only used the line interpreter (wish85), which was quite of painful :) .
(I used notepad++ for the "IDE" so no worries there).

Not: I missed the last line : You may use "Custom Test" feature (see contest user interface) to run your programs.
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
    ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
    Not= Note (sorry) 
    edit : note to myself, there is an "edit" on the top (so read the first and last line.. always)
    → Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it
I got it! The CUSTOM TEST is prepared for this contest.
Codeforces team entertains us :)
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
Great round! Really enjoyed it a lot. Though I left it mid-way, it was a lot of fun. Hope to see more such innovative rounds for the future.
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it
It was so happy and nice. A great idea and finally an innovation in CF.
Good way to learn new languages, you should learn and write a correct program as fast as possible. :D
→ Reply
14 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
Can we submit TCL solutions in contests from now on?
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
    Special for equation problems like "3+4-7"
    → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      There already are languages that have eval() function or so.

      For example, in python problem B can be solved even simpler than in tcl:

      print input()

      → Reply
14 years ago, # |
← Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -23 Vote: I do not like it
Unknown language Round!!!!!.
→ Reply
  • 14 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it
    Explain please
    → Reply
    • 14 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it
      I registered for the contest but when the contest starts I am just surprised.. I don't know Tcl. And how can I lear a new language during contest time?!? Sorry if my comment hurt anyone. I just told my experience. :|
      → Reply
      • 14 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
        That's the point - to learn new language during contest time : - )
        → Reply
        • 14 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it
          But during the contest time!! Yeah I tried to solve the easiest one (simple I/O), but couldn't find any document where I can learn Tcl easily and of course  fast. :(
          (Sorry if my previous comment hurt anyone). :-)
          → Reply